Forums / Poetry and Inspiration Discussion
Should it rhyme?Lock

Miss. Mayhem
on Apr 22 2012 12:12 AM
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I have this thing where i am like omg all my poetry has to rhyme or it's bad. Then i was reading a bunch of other people's poems and they were free verse. Is a poem better when it rhymes or not? I need opinions!

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Vex Darkly
on Apr 22 2012 12:19 AM
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A lot of people believe that modern poems should NOT rhyme, as focusing on rhyme can detract from the message or the language of the poem. I think this is bollocks, personally, if you want to rhyme your poem go ahead.

I think, basically, rhyme can be a useful tool in poetry if used well, however, rhyme is not a neccessity, and sometimes it's easier to just no bother rhyming
Nando Tater
on Apr 22 2012 01:07 AM
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Poetry that sounds good is better than poetry that does not, but rhyme is only one technique for satisfying the poetic element of sound, or music (and perfect end-rhyme is only one way to incorporate that technique). There are many other ways to address sound in poetry--meter, cadence, assonance, consonance, alliteration, cacophony, euphony, onomatopoeia, etc.

I believe that all good poetry is aware of sound (as well as the other elements of imagery, metaphor/figurative language, and voice/tone), but suggesting all poetry requires rhyme is akin to suggesting all poetry must to incorporate smell or hyperbole or cynicism...

ea
on Apr 28 2012 11:16 PM
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There was a time when no one talked
about what kind of rhyme they knocked
but now it's true, you'll see the fool
who once eschewed rhyme say it's cool.

(sorry, too long for your "Dribble" comp, but relevant to AP Contestland nonetheless.)

ea
on Apr 22 2012 02:44 AM
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It's far from dead, even in America, if you consider modern lyrics/ song writing and its huge appeal. If you like rhyme, continue to explore what comes naturally to you, while reading classic examples of poetry from the archives: http://allpoetry.com/classics

There you will find what sounds good to you and start to pick up on techniques without even really knowing what they are (kind of by osmosis)

You can also challenge yourself by trying to write for contests that call for specific examples of rhyme schemes and styles. In this way, you will begin to be aware of all the types of rhyme there are.
T
soul testing123
on Apr 22 2012 03:18 AM
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the option on rhyme
by my bible of all dictionaries merriam webster
that is before it turned to the dark side in the 60s
tho it retained some of its gold of former times
such gold i think is one of its definitions of poetry...
namely
2: writing that formulates a concentrated imaginative awareness of experience in language chosen and arranged to create a specific emotional response through meaning, sound, and rhythm
SEE NO RHYME ... THO IT MIGHT BE PART OF THE SOUND ASPECT IF ONE SO CHOOSES
AH THE ISSUE THO
OF WHAT BE THE EMOTIONAL RESPONSE SOUGHT BY WAY OF A POEM
....real inspirtation of the soul
or a twisted goal as related to

Ecc 7:29 I did learn one thing: We were completely honest when God created us, but now we have twisted minds.

but even if one is not yet freedto return completely to how god originally created the soul..
a fear of god can protect one from seeking such emotional responses
where the goal is a nurturing of the twisted mind aspects of the soul
that feed into that darkened heart
that came as result of the imaginations of the mind
being only evil continuously
and tho that being still the nature of the soul
that still it is caught up continuously in its dark past
in the minds better moments
it recognizes the value of seeking beyond such darkness of the heart
even tho such might be enuf to set it free completely
by so endeavoring in its better efforts
eventually one can renew the heart from its past darkness
and move on
to then a fully matured and renewed mind too
where thus there is no longer that old darkness of one's past stored in the heart
coz stored in the heart and tho concealed in darkness
there remains a true conscience
as the basis for renewing and restoring a pure heart ....
O
dave ochs
on Apr 22 2012 12:15 PM
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for the most part, passe, sing-song, trite, and old and tired but hey if thats what floats your boat.
dave

Vex Darkly
on Apr 22 2012 01:01 PM
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Play nice. Rhyme can be a beautiful thing

dave ochs
on Apr 22 2012 01:15 PM
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that was nice.
dave
Aregorn-Ariles
on Apr 22 2012 02:05 PM
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Yes I agree with the comment about modern thinking going toward poems that do not rhyme. Many think that it is old fashioned and stodgy. Myself I mostly use rhyme and meter in my work and when I try to work otherwise it just doesn't feel right to me. I have done some free-form works when what I wanted to say just couldn't be constrained to rhyme.

I would say that the most important thing (to me anyway) is that the poem conveys it's message in a manner that makes it memorable for one thing, and that it flows from verse to verse in a way that makes the reader enjoy reading it, and want to continue reading. Weather that is from the rhyme, the meter, or just the content doesn't really matter. I feel that it is the message not the method that matters.

Aregorn-Ariles

Nando Tater
on Apr 22 2012 05:26 PM
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Is poetry not a method applied to a message? The are lots of messages floating around (writing is, by definition, a means of communicating meaning regardless of genre), but not all of them are conveyed poetically...

Aregorn-Ariles
on Apr 22 2012 06:03 PM
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I love semantics. Yes what you say is true. However consider this, I have read "prose" that when it is read has a flow to it, an almost lyrical quality that to my ear, suggests 'poetry'. I have also read some "poetry" that was blokish and stumbled from verse to verse, so to me, that should have been denoted as 'prose'.

So I will have to agree with you slightly. When I said "the message and not the method" I should have been more clear. By 'not the method' I meant, It doesn't matter what you call it, Prose, Poetry, Limerick, essay, scripture, or just plain Note. If what is written has a lyrical flow to it, regardless of weather or not it rhymes and it has in lack of another word a poetic quality, you could call it poetry. So I will edit my comment in the interest of semantics, It is the message and the style, or technique, that matters. Not the method or should I say the name that is applied to the writing. But then again you can say that style and technique can be considered methods, true? In fencing words with you I say, It doesn't matter anyway. If what you mean to say gets through, and it has a flow, that's true, That I would call poetry You?

Aregorn-Ariles

Nando Tater
on Apr 22 2012 07:12 PM
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There is much overlap between poetry and creative prose, but they are on the same end of the writing spectrum. I would argue that essay and notewriting, among other genres are at the other end. (Scripture and sermon probably lie somewhere to the left and right of center.) The purpose of each is to get a message across, but the methods/techniques/devices (whatever you want to call them) are very different for, say, essay, where clarity and linearity are key, and poetry, which favors defamiliarization and abiguity. A diary entry may be clearly expressed and highly emotive, but that does not necessarily make it poetry. A good instruction manual reads easily and get a point across clearly, but does not focus on the elements of imagery, sound, metaphor and voice that make poetry, well, poetry.

What we generally mean when we reference "flow" is meter, rhythm or cadence. This is but one aspect of poetry, one part of the "method." My point is that it is not the message that makes words poetry, but the ways in which those words are creatively rendered in an attempt to express new or multiple meanings (or old meanings in new contexts, and vice versa). Perhaps there is a lot of semantics here, but what is poetry if not semantics--the infinite tints and hues of words and language?

Aregorn-Ariles
on Apr 22 2012 08:15 PM
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Yes I agree, and here is the inevitable however, what you have just said in one way confirms my point.

""but the ways in which those words are creatively rendered in an attempt to express new or multiple meanings (or old meanings in new contexts, and vice versa).""

If I were to take the text of an Instruction Manual, apply a metered flow, and edit or transpose words to make them rhyme, it would all be for nothing. The "message" would be instructional. Yet they would no longer be able to instruct effectively, due to the distraction involved by making the text lyrical. Nor would you be able to consider it poetry, because no matter how well I edited that text, while attempting to keep the meaning intact. The message would more than likely fail, I may be able to get it to resemble a poem, but in the end it would not be very good.
Now when the "message" is meant to 'express new or multiple meanings' and if I did all of the above, well, then it would be effective and 'poetic'.

A minor caveat to what I mean when I say "flow" I do not mean it in just the sense of metering, I mean also the flow of ideas, images, ect... The movement from one point to another.

Aregorn-Ariles

Nando Tater
on Apr 22 2012 10:26 PM
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I think the gist of what you are saying is that sound alone does not make poetry, which I certainly agree with (though centuries worth of religious handbooks and school primers would dispute the fact that sound techniques employed in poetry negate the ability of a text to "instruct").

I have, however, seen poetry that looks and reads like an instruction manual--on the surface, it may read as a "how to" on building a birdhouse or planting a garden, but the subtext may reveal truisms about life, love, loss, etc. This is defamiliarization, or "making it strange." We expect themes of love, for example, in a love letter, but not in the matter of fact language of an instruction manual. It is intentional moves like these on the part of the writer to surprise and challenge the reader that define poetic language. A poet is one who see things not as they appear to the rest of the world but, to paraphrase Emily Dickenson, through a different slant of light.

I think writing that "says exactly what it means," even if it deals with familiar poetic themes, fails as poetry in some way--because with poetry, more than any other genre of writing, meaning is as much what is extracted by a reader as what is intended by the poet. Of course, even this relationship exists on a spectrum. Some poems are a bare lightbulb in a stairwell. Some are a darkened stairwell with only a thin handrail. And others exist without the light, the rail, or even the stairs...

Aregorn-Ariles
on Apr 23 2012 01:14 AM
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Yes that is almost exactly what I was trying to say, I think we were both trying to get to the same place, but we each were each on different roads. I will also have to agree that poetic techniques can be used effectively in instruction. I am not sure that I could say that all of it could be considered poetry, but it is a very effective tool to use. I begin to think that we have the same idea and it could just be how we were trying to express it that caused the confusion.

I think that one place we were seeing a difficulty, was with the term "message" to me the message can be on the surface or covered with other levels of meaning. Your example of "Making it Strange" is a good example.

Where I can see the point you are you are making, But I will have to differ slightly in one way. If the writer, buries what he is trying to portray to the point where only another writer, poet or {what it the term I am looking for} person who is able to "see the in the same slant of light" can see the meaning he is trying to convey, then in some ways that writer is failing. To those, who are "in on the joke" so to speak, he will appear to be a brilliant writer. Whereas to the general public he would not appear to be very good.

They can have someone point out the meaning to them, and then in their heads they will agree that he is a brilliant writer. But, unless they were able to see it for themselves, in their hearts they will not understand it. I think what Richard Gere said in Pretty Woman is a good example;

"People's reactions to opera the first time they see it are very dramatic. They either love it or they hate it. If they love it, they will always love it.
If they don't, they may learn to appreciate it, but it will never become part of their soul."

There may even be some cases where academia may read many levels of meaning into a work when, in reality, the author actually did "say exactly what they mean". But if I were an "up an coming writer" and I was being touted "as the next best thing since sliced bread" because of all the subjective undertones in my work I would have to be hard pressed to disagree, I think. So in the end it would depend on who the target audience is as to how deeply I would bury my meaning / message.

Aregorn-Ariles

Nando Tater
on Apr 23 2012 02:40 AM
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I think all good poetry works on more than one level, and this is not accidental--good poets know how to get good mileage out of their work. I also agree that there are writers who are far too obscure to be worth the trouble, just as there are writers whose work is "exactly what it says on the tin" and leaves very little to the imagination or interpretation of the reader. Some poems are way too difficult; some, way too easy. Good poetry lies somewhere in the middle--that darkened stairwell with just enough of a handrail to feel your way through. Or a door, perhaps, that is neither locked nor wide open but just slightly ajar...

Aregorn-Ariles
on Apr 23 2012 07:12 AM
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And the roads converge. I will have to agree with you here. I just hope that we haven't thrown the thread into a tailspin... No, looking back through the posts we both stayed 'basically' on the topic of the thread. I love a good debate. Can we agree than that rhyming is not really necessary, but the meaning that is in the work both above and below the surface, and the writers ability to deliver it in a way that is pleasant to both the eyes and ears?

Nando Tater
on Apr 23 2012 02:22 PM
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Yes, we are close. "Multiple meanings" satisfies the prerequisite of metaphor/figurative language and "eyes and ears" touches on elements of imagery and sound. That leaves voice/tone, which some might see as an organic coalescense of the other three elements (though there are plenty of devices/techniques specific to it as well).

I know my points/views on poetry may read as stilted or mechanical, but my approach to is as a writer or read is anything but. Like most people, I just "know what I like." But when I attempt to articulate why a poem works for me, to myself or others, I generally find myself returning to these four elements.

And truth. Good poetry is true, in the same sense that good fiction is true. Some poets rely on "big" truths, "conventional" truths, "universal" truths. Others focus on "little" truths, "new" truths, "situational" truths. The best poetry, for me, achieve the former by revealing the latter...

C
Judith Chandler
on Apr 22 2012 05:33 PM
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I find playing with rhymes is quite absorbing and lately that is what I find myself doing. But creating a poem without rhymes is also worth doing.

Internal rhymes are fun and sometimes occur unintentionally.
just mercedes
on Apr 22 2012 08:56 PM
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.
just mercedes
on Apr 22 2012 08:58 PM
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Discoveria
on Apr 23 2012 02:12 PM
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There should be fortune cookies with this message in them!
kyew
on May 09 2012 09:16 PM
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I'm finding this difficult to read. Could you please edit the font?

Chris the Rhymer
on Apr 23 2012 02:13 AM
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The original question "Is a poem better when it rhymes or not?" doesn't have a "real" answer, only the opinions of the reader concerning the words of the writer.

So, for what it's worth, here is my opinion...

It is easier to write verses without rhyme/rhythm than with. However many verses without rhyme/rhythm are just a long list of emotional flashing with no connection to the reader.

I think most examples of "Free Verse" are just plain bad, as the "poets" don't understand the requirements and without the signposts of rhyme/rhythm are just creating a list of thoughts.

But those lucky souls who can do it well can produce works with flow and meaning and transcendental beauty not constrained by syllabic accounting or forced end rhymes.

But that doesn't mean that rhyme/rhythm is better. Many verses with rhyme/rhythm are pedestrian, forced, clunky or just plain bad. However, as above, when done well it can make the heart sing, and lets face it most songs are constructed with rhyme/rhythm.

I think that rhyme/rhythm can be used as a framework for ideas and will therefore help to produce adequate poetry. Whereas freeverse is much harder to do well.

So my conclusion is:-

Rhyme/rhythm can be bad, merely adequate or very good.

Freeverse is mostly bad but can be very good.
A
Arthur
on Apr 23 2012 04:35 AM
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It is worth while learning why rhyme was invented/ developed in the first place. There was the oral tradition of the travelling bard putting on a small concert at a castle dinner or in some market place etc. He had a repertoire of learned songs/ballads generally with a story line. To help him remember the words he would have end rhymes so when he had sung one known line the last word would cue the next line. If he forgot he would fill in with fol de rol and whipst diddle ee dandy dee etc. The song was requird to be in line with tune so it had a metre that matched the music again a memory guide. Metre itself originated in the Greek religious dance where the metre of the spoken words matched the pattern of the feet dancing hence we talk of parsing a piece of poetry's meter into feet.
after aspoken length of verse there would be a turn in the dance and this was the strophe. It really is interesting to investigate this aspect of poetry's origins.
The only problem I have with rhyme is where people bend /invert the grammar to achieve a rhyme. If you have to do that - don't.

ea
on Apr 23 2012 05:12 AM
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Really? You have it nailed down to one bard and location? Are you sure it wasn't brought over along the Silk Route? It existed in China far longer ago than it existed in Germany, which had it before England... I have read that its origins were in magic spells and chants in northern Europe.

A
Arthur
on Apr 23 2012 05:53 AM
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The origins were still in the singers and balladeers and chanters whatever you want to call them. Rhyme was in China and Arabic, indeed in the Koran, although Mohammed stole it from a Yemen female poet,but it was still the memory guide that was part of the oral tradition that preceded the printed versions.
Nando Tater
on Apr 23 2012 01:52 PM
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He's not implying a single man but rather a single profession. Rhyme and meter were mnemonic rather than aesthetic devices in their earliest form employed by oral poets or bards (think "writer" and "singer," though some were both). It's most likely that they developed independently in the East and the West, long before the Silk Road or paper or perhaps even written language. By the Middle Ages, rhyme and meter dominated European song and verse, emerging as the forms we are most familiar with today. Some sources credit the early Irish/Celtic peoples with perfecting the technique (which might well be rooted in mysticism).

ea
on Apr 23 2012 02:06 PM
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The way his original post read implied a single fellow standing up in a single castle.

A
Arthur
on Apr 23 2012 04:04 PM
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Sorry about that. There was not one bard, of course not, although my wordage might seem to imply that. There was a corps of balladeers, troubadours etc and the oral tradition was wide spread. I imagine that the Chinese rhyming was developed by their equivalent. My arguement/ point of debate ws that rhyming and to some extent metre were mnemonic devices. Later poetry separating itself from musical accompaniment used rhyme as a musical element in verse along with many other devices.

ea
on Apr 23 2012 08:58 PM
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Ok, if you want to keep fiddling with your original post, maybe you can make it dance to the tune you have in mind.

Are you sure that all rhyme was only a mnemonic device though? What about those who use rhyme to build with…

ea
on Apr 23 2012 02:07 PM
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By the way, the Celts were over here in Germany long before they got to Ireland.

Nando Tater
on Apr 23 2012 09:51 PM
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Yes, Celts have prehistoric origins in Central Europe, but the Roman Empire and Germanic tribes from the north and east had displaced the cultural core by the time of Christ, which had shifted to Western Europe and the British Isles. Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Brittany are where the Celtic culture we are most familiar with today was consolidated...

ea
on Apr 24 2012 05:12 PM
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ah, well, that's British Isles & a part of France then. Actually, the Silurists of Wales came out of Spain. I would look at Scotland first, where the Saxons of Germany so influenced the language, you can still recognize the German words in the early English lit that rhymed.

ea
on Apr 24 2012 05:13 PM
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Actually, the first systematic use of rhyme in Western literature was in early medieval Latin hymns.

W
X. Woo
on Apr 23 2012 05:31 AM
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I think it';s up to the poet to use rhyme or not. there's no rule for it. but there should be rhythm in poetry, which will make the reading of it sound beautiful.

A
Arthur
on Apr 23 2012 09:12 PM
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Rhythm is a part of the music of poetry but I am not fond of syllable counting and dislike poetry that'bounces' to the iambic beat. What I feel is more important is the rythmic 'flow' .now if the poem is eye read that flow is not as obvious as when spoken so I always read my stuff out loud to myself and listen. Even one word can halt the rythmic flow when read aloud. The trouble with nternet poetry is that we can now read poetry submitted from all over the world and from people whose first language is not always English so there are poems from people who have different speech rythms from my reading and that can cause difficulties.
I am living now in a country where English is not the first language and as I walked past a house this morning I heard someone talkig. I could not make out what he was saying , not one word of it, and yet I knew it was English spoken by someone for whom it was his native tangue simply from the patterns of his voice. I waited till he came out and I was right.

ea
on Apr 23 2012 02:44 PM
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At any rate, I believe that the gift of rhyme is present in many people, handed down through genetic memory, like the ability to draw or to sing. And I thought this long before I discovered other poet's (Like the Welsh poet Robert Graves') opinion on it. Rhyme can also "come to you" unbidden in dreams, as well.

Discoveria
on Apr 23 2012 03:14 PM
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This is an interesting idea. Something like Noam Chomsky's theory about grammar rules being innate, except with rhyming? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_grammar#Chomsky.27s_theory

ea
on Apr 23 2012 08:55 PM
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No, that does not follow. Why would anyone say that poetry lacks grammar? Graves himself said:

"Every English poet should master the rules of grammar before he attempts to bend or break them."
(by the way, I don't really agree with that. lol)

What I am talking about is what he states when asked: "Are they [poets] people who perhaps feel a greater wisdom, through the instincts or the senses?"

Graves' answer: "I think it's probably memory, some inherited bardic memory."

http://net.lib.byu.edu/english/WWI/influence/graves.html

S
Mark Sauer
on Apr 24 2012 07:58 PM
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I agree with Chris Daws' comments above, more than most. My opinion is that poetry that doesn't rhyme or scan is decaffeinated coffee, non-alcoholic beer; what's the point? But just because it rhymes, doesn't make it poetry, only verse.
W
Dike Dyke Willi
on Apr 25 2012 05:39 AM
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It allows the poem flows like river to river...And it's one device that really separates poetry from the other genres....It gives so much life to poetry and adds to the sound as an element.
Mehak
on Apr 27 2012 11:22 AM
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Rhyming scheme make poem poem beautiful . I don't like free verse because in rhyming scheme you use your mind much and it is difficult to making the poem in rhyming scheme.
A
Arthur
on Apr 29 2012 05:44 AM
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There is a pallette of devices available to the poet from which he can select what best suits the voice of the poem he is bidden to create. this pallette includes, and this is not complete, rhyme, rhythm, alliteration. assonance, metaphor, exended metaphor, simile, half rhyme, internal rhyme and I could go on, the point is use what is appropriate to the 'voice' of your poem. A poem is the verbalising of an epiphany. It has a voice and will demand your use of the pallette describe. listen to me and learn.
If any word in this post is strange then look it up and learn.

D
Dekenai
on May 09 2012 02:23 PM
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I agree Arthur.
That's why free verse is not poetry. Whatever it is, it is not poetry.
RDC

jessiedawn
on Apr 29 2012 09:19 PM
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I personally think that a rhyming poem generally sounds more whimsical, and non-rhyming poems seem more serious. I love both!
Savannah D
on Apr 30 2012 09:57 AM
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I don't like it when poems rhyme too much. Then it just sounds cheesy.
B
Christian Butler
on Apr 30 2012 03:11 PM
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Poetry is a form of self-expression, and a subjective one at that. Some will say rhyming is cheesy, others feel it helps bind a poem together. At the end of the day, much like a movie doesn't have to be cerebral to be enjoyable, a poem does not have to be dramatic free verse about major social issues or your personal struggles to be a good poem.

EDIT: At the end of the day, much like a movie doesn't have to be cerebral to be enjoyable, a poem does not have to be free verse which may include, but is not limited to, drama, social issues, and/or your personal struggles, in order to be a good poem.

This edit is for you Mr. Ochs...

O
dave ochs
on May 07 2012 06:56 PM
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interesting comment, i like the way you say a poem doesn't have to be dramatic free verse about major social issues or your personal struggles, as though thats some kind of written rule of what free verse is.
dave

B
Christian Butler
on May 08 2012 09:07 AM
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I never meant to say that that is the only way that free verse functions, but if you want to troll me about it that is fine with me. In the context of my comment it was intended to say that a poem can rhyme and be lighthearted or silly and still be a good poem. When taken out of the context I'm sure that it appears as though I meant to put a limit on what free verse is. I know full well that there are myriad uses for free verse, I apologize for giving one isolated example in one comment on one forum on one website. I'm sorry that out of my intended message you were only able to clip that little bit. I included an edit in the original comment that should address your concerns, I hope it is PC... Have a nice day.

O
dave ochs
on May 08 2012 05:16 PM
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its funny you give me this long explanation to make what you said more clear, then you call me a troll, if you can't articulate what you meant to say that doesn't make me a troll. anyway it doesn't matter its all bullshit anyway.
dave

Christian Butler
on May 08 2012 07:50 PM
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Well aren't we Mr. Sunshine...

dave ochs
on May 08 2012 09:27 PM
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ah your just a sensitive little beach.
dave

B
Christian Butler
on May 09 2012 04:37 PM
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Not so much, no. Your opinion of me or my opinions has no bearing on whether or not I have a nice day/life, perhaps you think yourself more influential than you really are. In any case have a nice day.

O
dave ochs
on May 09 2012 04:48 PM
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really? you seemed pretty upset over a philosopical disagreement. but who cares.
dave

B
Christian Butler
on May 09 2012 05:18 PM
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I don't mind you disagreeing with me, and if my responses seemed upset I suppose that is a result of the fact that you can't show body language through text, thus it is easy to misinterpret. I have better things to be upset about than what a stranger on the internet thinks of my views on what constitutes good poetry.

dave ochs
on May 09 2012 05:28 PM
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i still disagree with you and i don't apoligize. rhyme sucks
dave

Christian Butler
on May 10 2012 05:01 PM
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Tennyson rhymes, does Tennyson suck?

O
dave ochs
on May 10 2012 05:09 PM
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sorry christian i'm not at all impressed by Lord Tenneyson he wrote a poem The Eagle or something thats ok iv'e written hundreds better, like i said rhyme and meter suck.
dave

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Christian Butler
on May 10 2012 05:12 PM
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Thanks for the laugh of the day dave. I've read some of your stuff, I would hardly say it is better than Tennyson. It's good, don't get me wrong, but I would not elevate you that high. Are you also better than Robert Frost?

Andrej
on Apr 30 2012 09:33 PM
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Forced rhyme is never a good thing, ruins the piece. If the author can sneak in rhyme.. then shows off their skills and talent even more.
Alendar
on May 07 2012 05:28 PM
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It seems difficult to find good rhyme. There are great meterers and rhymsters on AP, but all their work seems to dim from the weight of the pondering rhyme. They do it to show off a clever technique, but convey little or nothing in the way of emotion. Medieval sonnets show great mastery of rhyme and meaning and can be a delight to read, but I find no such evidence here.

Why not focus on what poems are good for? They can pass a message or thought or feeling or idea from one brain to another indirectly, via channels invisible in the plain text. That is the magic of poetry. Rhyme and fixed meter are simply tricks, like reciting pi to 300 places.
laptop
on May 08 2012 02:14 AM
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Poetry is good when it has a rhythm. Free verse can flow and sound nice as well, but rhyming, alliteration, assonance, and all the other forms of sound should stay in poetry I think.

I like to rhyme because it makes me analyze what I'm saying. Poetry is like psycho-analysis for me. Sometimes when I don't have a pen and I'm thinking of poems, it helps to remember if it rhymes.
lindaburns
on May 08 2012 04:48 AM
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I did not read all the other comments so I may be repeating something already said. And of course, what you are getting here is my personal opinion. I'm 65 years old and I started out writing bad poetry that rhymed. Reading my earlier poems is embarrassing. But I think if a set of words conveys what the poet wants to convey, it's poetry. I don't like all of it. I prefer complete sentences with proper punctuation but I have read some really good poetry that did not follow what I prefer. I recognize free verse as poetry. It goes without saying (but here I am saying it anyway) not all free verse poems are "good". Just as not all rhyming poems are "good". Some of both are VERY good. Linda

ea
on May 08 2012 09:26 AM
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Am I the only one who cowers in the typeface of your HUGE, BOLD posts?

lindaburns
on May 09 2012 04:11 AM
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as far as I know. You have no vision problems. Am I right? And I went back and made 3 of the words actually bold so you could see the difference.

ea
on May 09 2012 04:19 AM
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Actually, I do have vision problems. But I can see the screen if I take my glasses off and sit at the right distance from it. Your posts are WAY bigger and all of the words are BOLDED from where I sit and what I don't understand is, how you can read all the rest of the comments here and yet have to make yours way bigger and in bold. I notice you do it in comments on poems as well and it is obnoxious to say the least.

lindaburns
on May 09 2012 04:25 AM
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Just one question: Why do you even care? Thank you for looking at so many of my poems. You subject yourself to the obnoxious for no good reason. Unless you are just looking for some one to pick on. You've made me proud to take the brunt of your enlighten sensibilities thus - one would hope - sparing some more tender poet who would be damaged by your comments. Live long, and prosper. Linda

ea
on May 09 2012 04:28 AM
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I'm talking about the comments you leave on others' poems. You have left them on mine this way and it feels like this huge, screaming Banshee commenting, but I see you have reduced the font now and are typing in a normal voice and so I thank you for that.

lindaburns
on May 09 2012 04:41 AM
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How you chose to feel has nothing to do with what is intended. On "Reply" there is no font size choice. I am not shouting. I am typing something I can see more easily. And HONESTLY, out of all the comments I have received in the last seven years on AP, you are the only one who was offended. I've loved talking to you but I gotta go do stuff. COPD test and evaluation and packing for a trip. Because of travel time, I should be able to sign back on by Monday.
Don't worry about not caring. I'm just a compulsive communicator.
If I leave you additional comments in the future, they will be the large ones. I hope you will be able to take them for what they say and try to perceive them as they are intended rather than evaluating the font. But . . . do as you will. As will I. ()

ea
on May 09 2012 04:44 AM
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()

ea
on May 09 2012 04:25 AM
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Well, Victoria, excuse the indiscretion. I hope someone has answered your question, dear.
D
Dekenai
on May 09 2012 02:21 PM
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Getting back to the original question----
What is prose and what is poetry?
I see much of modern 'poetry' is really prose.
Poetry does not necessarily have to rhyme, BUT it does have to flow and some rhyme helps that flow. Anyone can write a sentence of words, but to turn that into real poetry is difficult.
Go back and look at some famous poetry -it is self evident.
Iambic pentameter, and other poetic devices, these are the tools.
Dekenai
O
dave ochs
on May 09 2012 04:15 PM
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i agree with you Dekenai if you like nusery rhyme
HIckory dickery dock
the mouse ran up the clock

yeah thats real nice.
dave
kyew
on May 09 2012 04:38 PM
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To rhyme or not to rhyme... I've always let the poem decide. I prefer to write poems when they want to be written, as opposed to writing them 'on purpose'. In most cases, I don't rhyme - I like the freedom of constructing the images in my head in whatever way gives the most options. And I really don't like to rhyme (simply a reaction to that having been the 'norm' way back when...) However, I have had poems that refused to be written in any other way than rhyme. I take them as they come and don't complain too much about the form they take. I guess my advice (if you want any) would be, let the poem come as it will. You never know what will develop. Well, unless you're actually directing the development.

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