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im just curious... i really want to know
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Depends what kind of story you're thinking of--from what I've heard, it's better to get the acceptance first and then have an agent negotiate the contract. And you don't need an agent for all types of stories.
Start in the e-zine scene; it helps you build a fan base and improve your craft before you move on to the bigger stuff. -
For short stories, you don't need an agent.
Agents only handle novels, movie rights, ebooks, things like that.
Anything under 60,000 words (as a rule) you handle yourself.
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Lots of heartbreak, lot's of stationery...
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...and a very, very thick skin.
I started sending out query letters to agents in the UK about eight years ago. I had responses, some asking my why I bothered (because they wouldn't soil their hands with horror/spoof) or just didn't handle novels, period. Then there were the "interesting read, didn't grab me" - lots of those - and eventually "This is funny, and I enjoyed it, but I wasn't enthusiastic enough to try to sell it (because the market is controlled by Pratchett/Holt/Rankin/Adams)."
Eventually tried every agent in the Writers and Artists Yearbook (from 1996-2006).
By this time I started sending in short stories to magazines - small stuff, but once you get a hit and it gets read...man, what a buzz.
Joined a writer's site called The Next Big Writer. Followed up an advert, contacted the agency via the guy most likely to read and respond (according to his profile).
From there it was a slow, slow crawl to initial interest, a request to send the entire manuscript (which, at over a thousand pages cost something in the region of the Peruvian national debt).
Finally, months later... the magic words...
"Wonderful book. I'd like to offer you representation."
I think I've still got most of the rejection notes (those that bothered to respond, anyway).
It comes down to persistence...and perhaps a little desperation. As they say, it's a slow, slow industry and I'm still waiting for a publisher with the balls to publish something different. That's nearly 3 years since my book started to do the rounds via a good agent. As I said...slow. And I might still have to get my head around a rewrite.
Ah me. Oh woe.
Bleat and whinge, perhaps simultaneously.
Moan, gripe.
Sigh.
Sorry...what was the question? -
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Uh, how long did it take you to post that comment?
--RT
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The sad truth is the industry is wrapped around publishing the 2,000 known names in the industry, allowing little room to take a chance on a new name; however, once in a while one of these aging writer's turns dry or geaser, allowing room for a new author to hit the stage.
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To be honest, I'm trying myself. I've had some luck. I found a writing guild when I was trudging through the uni halls, and voila! Professional weird psycho writing fella! Have a look around town, you're guaranteed to find something which will take you in.
--RT (Never made a comment that long in a while
)
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Don't start writing just to get rich, please. That's the worst possible thing you can do, because you WILL NEVER get published that way.
People who start writing are usually published in the small press and possibly leisure genre levels of publishing. If you're looking for anything bigger right now, you might as well stop writing and give up.
Did you know one percent of people who submit to big publishers are picked up?
Did you know that that other ninety-nine percent is rejected?
Don't worry about getting an agent right now.
The way an agent works is this: An agent will help you edit, proof, send out works and get you in touch with larger publishers. Now, in order for an agent to work for you, you need to give them a certain percentage of whatever you make. (I think it's usually ten percent.)
You won't get an agent just starting out, and if you're on this site all day doing nothing but posting the stories you write right aas they're done, you'll never get anywhere. I usually just post my stories up here for critique and then take them down before submitting them.
Now, see...
Forget about getting an agent until you've made a good amount of sells. -
Koby is 99% right. The other 1% are those rare success stories that pop up out of nowhere and get an agent.
If you want a chance at possibly being that 1%, then you need to learn how to write a really good query letter to get the agent's interest (I passed this step), a really great synopsis of your story to get them to ask for a partial (I nearly have this one down - just needs a little more work), and a first 50 pages that would keep even the stogiest of readers chomping at the bit for more (I finally have this part down).
Now ... the question ... why are agent's so tough to get?
For an agent to remain reputable, they can only send the best writings out to publishers to get published. If they send anything subpar for review, they close a door with a publisher, which hurts their bottom line. As such, agents are pickier than publishers.
For people starting out, it's a simpler (though not easy) process to try to get published through a small press, as they are willing to take more risks. If you put out a few books and get a following, then the agent will normally fall into place.
For me, I like to think big before stepping backwards, so I'm determined to try to be that 1% that manages to snag an agent. I came close once, as I managed to get a request for a full manuscript (the closest one gets to a yes before being told no by an agent) but I managed to drive myself into the dirt by missing a few key elements later in my story. Ah yes, every page must be a winner ... from the start to the finish ... as your agent will read them all.
Kobe's plan is definitely the way to go, as it has more hopes for success, and everything he says is true).
For me, I choose to take the high road, as I have all my life. After all, once every agent tells me no, I still can query all of the publishers myself. A lot more work, but a process that's teaching me much about the business.
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in the 25th anniversary edition of "Dune" there was a new introduction talking about how "dune" had gotten rejected by more publishers than any other book before finnally getting published and becoming "one of the greatest sci-fi worlds of all time" the point here is that persistence pays off, at any random moment, a person with the job title "publisher" is going to be looking for clones of his publishing houses current bestseller, (that's why any random "romance" will look almost comletely identical to several other "romance" titles by the same publisher, with a "clone" book, the target audience is the people who liked the first book, that's the target audience a publisher's going to know how to advertise to, with a completely original book, it's a thousand times harder to advertise to, and there's the possibility of the publishing house actually loosing money, that's why publisher's like series books, like Harry Potter, the Sweet valley books, the babysitters club, etc etc, but people get bored with repitition in what they read, with a completely original book there's the possibility of being #1 on the bestseller's lists instead of # 5 or 6
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in response to the actual thread topic
an agent isn't really neccassary untill after you've already had 1 or 2 novels published -
In response to Pyro ... I just spoke to someone last week that was rejected 77 times, and an agent just picked up their book. Absolutely, persistence does pay off; however, you need to reevaluate each step.
If you keep sending out queries and receive no requests for a partial, then revamp your query. If you keep sending out partials and receve no full manuscript requests, then revamp the beginning of your story. And if you keep getting requests for a full manuscipt and are getting rejected there then look at the flow of your story and the edning to see which needs to be improved.
It's not enough just to be persistent; you also need to realize when you are hitting a wall and need to rethink your way around it. These people who say they were rejected 98 times often forget to mention how they rewrote their query, how they rewrote their first chapter, how they rewrote their ending, or how they rewrote their story. Learning the path to publication is time well-spent, and and will eventually pay off.
Also ... agents are important for protecting your rights and securing a decent offer for all of your hard work. Without them, how are you to know how much your work is truly worth, what rights you just sold, and if the publisher you sold to just bought rights to the trilogy you are writing (at a bargain basement price).
I see nothing wrong with securing a publisher first, but then you need to get yourself an agent. If you already have a publisher that is saying 'I do', then it won't be difficult to find an agent as you have already pretty much guaranteed the agent a payday ... now who would say no to that?
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an agent takes a percentage of the money made from the book sales, the agent's percentage comes out of what the publishing house doesn't get, with an author that's never been published before, the agent will take a larger percent, resulting in the author recieving less money
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Very true Pyro ... but that percentage lost is more than made up for by the rights they protect, allowing them to be sold to other markets and to make more profit off one sale.
A first timer going it alone will typically have to sell all rights to a publisher to sell a book. An agent will piece out the various rights and keep them as seperate offers, making the agent (and you) more money in the end.
Also, an agent can put your story up for auction. If an author goes it alone, they risk a long wait every time they say no to a publisher, so it is more difficult for an author to shop around.
There are exceptions to every rule, but the safe bet is to play the percentages, and the house typically favors an author who secures an agent.
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Self- Publish
I think that self-publishing is the best way. -
I'm not so sure ... statistically non-fiction self-published titles sell less than 2,000 per title.
There are exceptions, but it's extremely difficult to highly promote your own book unless you decide to make it your fulltime job - and you won't be noticed with a self-published book unless you promote your book heavily. -
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This is an excellent thread.
and very informative.
Thank you.
al -
Note - Matthew Reilly started off with a self-published book, Contest which got noticed by Pan. Lucky him, eh?
I guess he fits into the exceptions.
I personally think that the first thing you have to do when setting out writing is to do just that - WRITE.
Get a book done. Then edit it. And edit again.
Most agents have a gazillion scripts to read, and if what they see on the first few pages doesn't interest them, BLAM, you're off. You have to work hard to get potential readers hooked into your novel by refining those first few chapters.
And, the only other peice of advice is ... try try try again ... and again, and again, and so forth.
RJ
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i still stand my my statement of getting at least SOMETHING published BEFORE even thinking about trying to get an agent, i would suggest trying to write for magazines or anthologies before trying to publish anything that's your own work all by itself
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