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I choose option three - in dire need of more nachos!
Anyone who disagrees can hand over their share to me.
I almost voted for option one, until I realized it didn't say Yoshi was a tyrant.
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I'll take some nachos...
and heavy on the marginalization, please...
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you forgot monkey.
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Don't you EVER mention monkey. Just the mere thought could bring on Armeggedon.
What are you thinking?
*me runs and hides*
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Dont mention what? Monkey?
*giggles*
Monkey monkey monkey monkey! *has no idea what we're talking about* -
AnnD: [People Against Controlling Administration] is deleting this group
(AnnD is a mod)
I'll just let that sink in a little -
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AnnD is more than a moderator. She is the site supervisor at AP and only answers to Kevin here. If you have a point you want to make, please do so and a moderator will be happy to try to give you a fair response.
Also, trolling to cause civil unrest is against site policy. There is a lot of animosity among some of the members on SW, and I'm not sure why. But please, voice your concerns in a respectful manner and we will be happy to respond.
symitar
moderator manager -
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I just wanted to clarify that it wasn't the group leader who was deleting it, but a moderator. I was unfamiliar with the name and figured others may be too. I didn't mean it to belittle AnnD in any way
My point would be that I find no reason for that group to be disbanded. Admittingly, the group was not...flattering...to the admistration, and we have had a particular rash of anti-establishment outrage recently in the CB and forums, but there was some good and/or honest discussion in that group -
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I understand that you may not agree with the decision to delete the group; however, AnnD evidently felt it was created only to create more unrest on the site. We do want to hear your complaints and concerns, but forming a group that is almost like a group for vigilantes is not permitted.
Please use this forum when you have a concern, because this is where a moderator can find it and respond to you properly. We don't ask that you praise staff or make groups that 'flatter' administration, we only ask that you be respectful of the site and staff, and of course Kevin.
Try to keep your complaints civil and give us time to respond. You might be surprised at how that will work for you. As far as not agreeing with a decision to take an action, well, we regret having to take actions against any member. I can assure you it is never done without much consideration (and always after multiple warnings).
symitar
moderator manager -
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Hey symitar,
I too have noticed the hard-line air to Kevin's management model, not just here but at Sharepoetry. Since it is consistent, I figure it comes from the top.
The observation I have made is that there is never any accomodation for discussion. I have always felt like a "comrade" when dealt with in any moderatory manner.
You moderatory types may want to look into softening your hard line approach, being as how writers are all about addressing the freedom to speak and be heard. You as the authorities of this site should well be able to stand and deliver and prove your point with words. But often, that is not the case, but simply a boot in the backside with a "Thank you for not playing" imprinted in the heel.
That has been my honest impression. Truth has no fear of exposure and any time expression is squelched one has to question. It's what makes us writers, we seek to understand and to be understood. The "no room for comment" approach is a kick in the groin to everything that it means to be a writer. Surely you can see that?
al
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It's corrupt, I tell you.
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How can it be corrupt? it doesn't represent the people or anything
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Not Perfect
There is probably no organization with as many members as Storywrite, which doesn't have some disagreement with administration among its members at times. In order to have an organization, there must be an administration of some sort. Without it, there is only chaos. Participation in Storywrite is a choice and a privilege. Adhering to the rules is a necessity, but here the rules do change.
This administration is flexible. That is why the Policy Board exists. Is it perfectly just? No, but it is fair. It is similar to an enlightened monarchy or an attentive dictatorship. The voice of it's members does matter.
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All you ever say is that we're "trying to incite unrest." Think about that for a moment. Nobody has that as their goal. I understood when Raven was banned--for perfectly good reason perhaps--but the same thing was done to everyone who started to complain about it. I'm not about to say who is right or wrong, but it seems as if the administration here doesn't want to listen to us.
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Not to give out names or go into specifics, but I can guarantee you that anyone that was 'also banned' was not done solely for complaining. The complaining was just the final link in already long files. Most users are actually on their last 'chance' (as it were) and it happened to be at the time when they specifically went trolling with the site.
Barbara
Moderator Manager
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*but the same thing was done to everyone who started to complain about it*
Not to counter your argument, but I went through the list of all the people who complained and found only a small percentage were banned.
I also checked thir files and indeed Barb was right. Their files were overflowing with issues - most of which were evoked by complaints from other members.
Now, I don't want you to think that I am jumping in to aid Barb or piling on. I'm simply trying to provide more information within the limits I am allowed.
It's misfortumate, but we don't always see the whole story, and that's how it should be. No member should ever be told how often someone got in trouble or what they got in trouble for. Anyone can change, and if this information is not held private, then they have no means to do so, as then they are forever marked.
I actually HAVE seen some member turn around who caused a lot of trouble in the past. For me, that's a great success story, as it proves the human instinct to do right by others still survives.
However, some refuse to conform, and we can't - in fariness to other members - allow them to continue to break the rules and do nothing.
Like janitors in the real world, no one notices what we do, as we do what is expected of us. However, everyone would take notice quickly if we stopped doing our job.
We all accepted what life would bring when we accepted the job, and never had any delusions of being popular when we became moderators. However, we do have many friends, and I attribute this to the fact that many members do appreciate the help we offer. After all, we aren't all about rules.
As a matter of fact, we offer a lot of assistance to members which goes unseen, and I think that needs to be taken into account as well. Our job is not so one-sided that we just troll for trouble. Truth be told, we aren't allowed to. Instead, we must wait for trouble to come to us, which is how I prefer it, as we don't have time to overview every single event that occurs on this site.
Sad by true the moderators are (almost) human. Those cyborg occular implants and biomechanical fingers are only there to help us do our job.
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Thank you yoshi
A decade has passed since I joined AllPoetry and then Sharepoetry--or feels that long since I led what would pass for a normal existence, (actually 2005) and my time has been anything but smooth, especially at the start when trolls attacked me constantly. (I attract them like carrion attracts flies.) Even when I did not fully deserve it, I can only give thanks for the support and other good things that mods did to continue to keep me here.
I can easily understand what a heavy job it can be to keep peace among writers whose flow of words bursts the dams of normal interaction among peers. Writers too easily hurl invectives, and like knife slices cheese, can sabotage the well-being of others. Many of us bear scars. It is natural to respond in kind. And yet--
I salute the ability of Mods to smoothe hurts, placate bruised and throbbing egos, and set things back in order where outsiders would plant bombs.
Thank you all!
Terry
Post Script.
I have no idea what happened here because I am new as a member. The embers seem to be still smoldering, and a recent event did make me shake my head, but overall the positive feeling remains. I wish you well. Generally I have found Mods helpful and I can only judge by my own experience.
T
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Can I vote again? I'd vote tyrranic like ten more times.
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In my experience, those who tend to do that, tend to have encountered problems with the administration that they feel reflects the site as a whole, would this be one of those times? I sense it indeed would.
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There's the attitude right there.
You know, every time a communist government cracks down it's the same thing: need to take care of trouble-makers.
"Oh, so you have an opinion? STAMP!!, there you go, you are a troublemaker. You don't agree with my irrefutable right of reason? STAMP!!, there you go, trouble-maker.
Yes...wouldn't it be nice if life and conflict resolution were so simple. I'm right, you're wrong, end of question. "Do you have an opinion on that? Because my stamp stands at the READY!!!"
It's called oppression, and it is a very sad thing to see it wielded so freely and in such a cavalier fashion. Simply observe the tactics of any authoritarian, state controlled government/dictatorship, then liken them to your own. I think you'll find the similarities multitudinous and shocking.
The authoritarian never dares to look in the mirror because anything that reflects poorly on the state is banned. -
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I dunno
story writing website to communist government, thats a bit of a stretch. Its not like there aren't a bazillion other writing sites out there. No need to pack your belongings and sneak out in the middle of the night to a neighboring country in search of freedom and the right to do whatever it is you feel you cannot do here. You can do this from the convenience of your own home, in your pj's if you're so inclined.
I don't think anarchy (although I can think of quite a few that would love it) is the answer here. No, I think this site needs some set of ground rules (as most sites and governments tend to have). Now I'm just guessing here but I bet the person who created the site might have a few he'd like to see put into play.
From what I've seen they are by no means set in stone BUT it will take a little more tact than just throwing a tantrum, stomping our feet and starting polls of how just SW is to get opinions heard. It has been done before.
If this was a communist government would this poll even be allowed?
Logic people, we all have it. Use those words we all love (not the 4 letter ones or the seven dirty ones) to express your concern/feelings and propose a way to resolve the issue.
They have plenty of stamps (with a few of the choice words mentioned above) but the trouble-maker stamp is the one that rarely gets used (word on the street is they hate using it).
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I remember being a moderator during these troubled times. As I retired myself for a much needed vacation, I can reflect back on this time and see it as a speed bump in Storywrite's evolution.
In all of my dealings with members as a moderator, I don't remember any 'troublemakers'.
Sometimes I think we lose sight of the fact that we are members here, not owners. As such, we must follow the park rules, and I know firsthand that the moderators always gave members a chance to learn those rules before proceeding any further.
Therein lies the whole issue no one ever saw. Scour the whole site and find out who was chat banned yesterday, the member that was banned from the forums, the member that was scolded for plagiarism.
Unless a member posts how unfair it was to be acted upon, nothing is ever seen of the incident. It's all done privately, as it should be.
And so, we don't know the member who received just one warning, vs. the member that received 100. Oh, the moderators know, but they won't tell, because they respect the privacy of the members and don't air their dirty laundry among the members. That's how it should be, and that's why they get such a bad rap.
When you log in and see five members banned for one infraction, it's really easy to scream gestapo.
In fact, I remember being verbally berated by a member stating how we banned their friend for one minor infraction. Truth be told, the member had been warned constantly and the warnings did no good, so management finally acted upon the situation.
I sat there and took one message after another from this person saying how unfair we were, and how we were power mongers. I took it, and never offered any defense. Why? Because the member had rights I refused to violate. I couldn't say they did this, they did that, they did the other thing. It wasn't allowed.
To make matters worse, I was asked to come up with any other time the person had caused a problem, I couldn't, because of the rules. I was then accused of stonewalling - which I was - but for the member, not the management.
And so, I now find myself enjoying the calm, and I think to myself, what a beautiful feeling to kick back and know there's people out there watching over my rights and keeping the peace, so I can enjoy the website.
I also have a benefit few other members share. I have seem the moderator site of the fence, and I know it's far more blissful on the members side of the field. Last but not least, I know the guys and gals that do their job quietly day after day, behind the scenes, and I love and respect every one of them.
Believe me, when I tell you, there isn't a finer bunch to be had.
Well, um, there was this old guy named Yoshi who was a bit of a bad egg, but I heard he retired to market a novel.
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Hey Yoshi...
my point is this: a moderator should be able to defend their position and back it up with policy. One cannot be held accountable for policy inexistent previous to an infraction.
I was once(well, maybe more than once) moderated upon, but no site policy covered my infraction. To which I was replied to with an immediately new rule and a "shut up, I'm a moderator, Kevin made me the boss and you have to listen to me because" To the which as you can well guess I endeavored to deliver a sound literary thumping being as how the holes in the moderators logic were multitudinous and glaring. It had to be done in the name of justice and equity for writers everywhere, it just had to.
I was banned. Nobody had the decency to address my points and I was quite miffed. Any time I tried for redress and a removal of the so-called offense I was told to shut-up now or that I would be banned for good if I didn't shut up. Hey, if you cannot stand and defend your logic, you are deserving of neither your logic nor the right to wield it in a position of authority. That's all I'm saying.
I understand the need for rules and they are very important. I believe in laws and I believe in the freedom of a proprietor to run his site as he wishes. I just think it'd ring a little more rightly with the people if the time were taken to actually discuss, rather than decree. Decreeing is so medieval and really quite offensive to the rest of us here in the free world. But well, you know...us yanks have been spoiled with that sense of freedom for a long time now and maybe it's high time it was beaten out of us. Threats are so pase...Personally, I find it terribly offensive when those in authority revert to threats in the face of questions. If you're right, you should be able to prove it. That's all.
p.s. and for the record, I think Kevin runs a tight ship and I much prefer his sites to anyone elses. It's great. But I do have opinions and do not at all feel remiss in sharing them. That's what freedom is all about. Such sentiment should be reverenced on a writing site because that is the role of the writer, to be a voice and to be heard. Without the writer the populace is deaf and dumb. Just asking for a little respect for the beloved craft that is written self-expression.
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Oh, jack...
you have to say that.
Since when is discussion "throwing a tantrum"?
Authority, or the duly appointed greeting representative of it, often chooses to characterize unsavory representations of it in a negative light. It's kind of like farting in an elevator when you don't like the company. Throw a few belittling labels around like stink and hopefully it thwarts anyone else hopping aboard.
Everyone is aware of the process of resolution, Jack. And, everyone knows that order is much preferable to anarchy. Can you imagine a site that wasn't moderated? It would be a complete disaster. China has order, the U.S. has order. Whose people are generally happier and enjoy more freedom? I'd venture to say the U.S. And why? Because people feel they have the right to question injustice and transparency in government is a way of life. Freedom to question without being summarily tossed out on one's a**...it's a good thing. The moment a person tells you to shut up just because, well...that's when there's something wrong that needs to be fixed. It is offensive to any free person to tell them they've no right to an answer. It just is.
So...back to my point, which was never anarchy, but simply to soften the hard-line approach and "discuss" rather than "decree". That was the jist of my comment. If that's a tantrum then you need to send me to a time out. Your corner, or mine?
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Shut up.
Ok, the whole shut up thing is very wrong and I hope this person was dealt with accordingly (taken out back, tied to a tree...) that person does not represent the mods or greeters as a whole; just like the two or three goofs that act up in the CB or anyhwere else don't represent all the teeny-boppers and old heads on SW.
If that was their actual response then they were most definitely wrong and I'm sorry you had to deal with that. Kinda like the one jerk cop that gives you a ticket for not looking left, right then left again at a stop sign. S/he doesn't speak for all.
Now as for the tantrum I guess I should have clarified. I wasn't referring to your comment but to the many other post on here, and subsequent other threads just stating that the mods are stupid, this place sucks, blah blah blah. It may feel good to vent and rant but no one really listens to you.
Your argument was thought out and well worded. You get a cookie.
Oh, I see you're eating nachos. Nevermind.
*Bring more Nachos!!*
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I'd say that the site is fair. Not just... but we aren't barbaric, either. I disagree with how some rules are carried out, but everything has its flaws.
. We who love the site must live with it as it is.
Ice Wolf -
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Hello LunarWolf,
I do not get how the site is " unfair ".
There are rules that people agreed to when they joined.
Here is the link :
http://storywrite.com/home/guide/terms
People are fully aware of them when they have joined.
If they don't like the rules they can find another poetry site.
Another thing is that people forget most of these are standard rules found everywhere.
They are for protection.
People all to easy forget what this site is sometimes for.
That is for stories, and posting them. The majority of us anyway.
If others want to use this to socialize then so be it.
Even in that on almost every site as well there is a code of conduct.
Furthermore, I have not found one site that is still standing strong
while letting people do almost whatever they want.
Even in sites when they tend to be free on the rules the activity is low.
That is not the case here. Though somedays it's slow others is not.
In the end it's a pretty busy site.
If the " rules " bothered people that much I doubt they'd be here.
The other thing people tend to forget. Each situation is handled with t.l.c.
The moderators think and talk amongst themselves half the time before handling one.
They try and do things so they won't have to ban but sometimes the person is out of control
and have had lots of warnings or warned in the past before.
I believe the warnings are more then fair.
In the end if the person has had several warnings and still continues then it's almost like the person is a troll.
No, I do not get how the site is unfair.
Kari
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Kari, I didn't say the site wasn't fair. Were you reading too quickly? I said it was fair but that we had our flaws, meaning that there are times when the rules are taken out of hand. Please reread, maybe you misunderstood what i was trying to say.
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Saying the site is fair and then disagreeing with a few rules is rather a contradiction of what you first said.
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Maybe I should rephrase what I meant. I didn't mean the rules themselves. I meant the way that things are carried out sometimes. Even I have found myself guilty of it sometimes. Like overlooking someone that's broken a rule. I've also seen newbies banned after making a mistake because they hadn't read the rules yet. I'm sorry if what I said wasn't as it apeared.
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To err is human and if one finds fault in what they've done they quickly try and resolve the issue if indeed it's a true mistake.
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i seriously have to learn to word stuff better. Sorry for how i worded that.
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lol see you proved my point
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all okay now? i sowwie. i really do need to learn how to word what i'm trying to say.
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No one is ever banned from the site without first receiving a warning. If the conduct continues, then they either get another warning, or depending on the issue, a ban. (If any new people are immediately banned, it's because they're someone who is already banned, joining up under another name.)
Barbara
Moderator Manager -
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I didn't know that. I have known some who were banned for that reason. Now... thinking about it... that could also have been a double warning. Sorry about that. I'm not thinking too clearly apparently.
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Nine times out of ten, the ones who think the site is unfair are ones that got busted for breaking site policy. The other one out of ten is a friend to someone that got busted, and hears half the story and bases their outrage on that.
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Oh wow.... The topic's become so... commented. When I made it I was in a rebellious mood...
But just so I clarify, I must agree with Ruby. The site is pretty fair, moderators give about as many warnings as they can spare without dying, and some even let slide minor things. But there are some policies I can't in all conscious mind agree with. And sometimes I feel like (dare I say) the site is trying to lock off rebellion by sending them to these such forums (as I understand is site policy), and then locking these forums when the people are only voicing an opinion or feeling. But please don't take it like I'm attacking the site, as this is only an opinion I feel slight about.
But can anyone here in all fairness honestly say the agree 100% with every single last detail about the sites, rules, regulations, policies and more?
~Z
P.S. - You all better watch your backs, I had too much fun writing that mod murder story for Barb's contest
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There are a few policies that I'm not fond of, but I follow and uphold them. Policies have been changed by people coming to this forum, and stating their objections, and reasons. Nothing will ever change just because someone got in trouble, and runs to the forums screaming "Attica!! Attica!!"
Demanding anything never works. Suggesting, and giving good reasons works. If Kevin likes the idea, then he will impliment it. If he doesn't, then he won't. Kevin, as webmaster, knows the way of the net, and what's going on with other sites. There are other sites... other writing sites... that have policies that are more strict than Storywrite.
(Policy complaints, etc, get sent here since Mods really can't reply to them any where else... and I can't see site members not wanting the whole story. (Unless they have something to hide, and don't want all sides told).
As for the contest... Bring it!
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Oh no.... Oh dear me, I'm agreeing with a mod
NO!!!! My rebellious bad boy street rep!
I guess I change my vote to fair, but with errs?
Note to self: Don't let Barb live in the next murder story
Heh, I viewed the competition, they're all chump kids that should go home!
Oh and I finished my entry if you didn't get my message about it before.
*Ponders how much fan mail Barb must get...* -
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Yeah.. fan mail... let's go with that...
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Are we using "fan" as a euphemism for something? If so, I'm totally with you
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I literally lawld.....
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I'm a firm believer that a mods first job is to resolve any issue brought to their attention. If I come into the chatbox and issue a warning, it's not because I saw something happening in there, it's because another member pointed it out and asked me to do something about it.
Same thing with forum postings, age changings, and anything else I address. A member brings a situation to my door, I judge its merit, then act within the policies given to me.
So ... in reality ... mods are not the cops of StoryWrite. We are mediators, and when the action is occurring live (like in the chatbox) we try to talk to those involved - and if possible - resolve the situation before it gets out of hand.
Otherwise, if the event has already passed, then we must evaluate the severity and act accordingly.
As such, when a member is warned, it's typically because another member passed judgment upon them and the mod was just there to arbitrate the complaint.
Now ... here's the humorous part. Sometimes, a member will complain about another member in the chatbox, then complain when that member is removed from the chatbox for an hour. Now, I ask you, what's up with that? haha!!
So ... feel sorry for us and treat us nice, and we just might share our nachos and chocolate chip cookies.
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Wow -0 what a debate.
I like SW the way it is - a varied bunch of people all hanging out.
Now let me take off my rose-tinted glasses ....
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SW is EXTREMELY just! Trust me.....if you want Tyranny, go over to Deviantart....they ban you for opening your mouth over anything, even the good things
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Did you *have* to resurrest this thing?
It's frankenstein-ian, honestly. -
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Sorry, I didn't notice the dates, just putting in my comment......I'll go away and leave you alone now......
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Forums /
Suggestions, Errors, Policies /
Poll: Tyrannic, or Just? What Do You Think Has Become Of SW?
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Ninja Bubble
Jan 28 7:58 PM
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