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Rubric systems


  • tonialoise
    Jul 2 9:08 AM
    Reply
    What's up with the rubrics in contests lately? Why did this sudden fad pop up?

    I don't feel these are helpful to my writing at all. They only tell me how poorly I did not what I did right or even really what I did wrong.

    I feel like I'm back in school being graded on my work.
  • I haven't entered a contest in a while; are they actually doing this? That sounds a bit anal, for lack of a better word. It really should be recommended that everyone take that contest-hosting class before they start one up.

  • Barbara
    July 3

    Reply
    The only way I would think to use them is in a contest that has more than one host. That way, all preferences by the hosts are taken into consideration.

    But... it's not a new fad, really... it's been here and there on AllPoetry for years now. It's used to point out weak spots, and places where the story can be improved upon... but, most times it's done in private, not on the story.

    I do it myself in any contest I host... but it's for my eyes only. It helps me make the best choice for the gold.... I'd never post it to the story itself, instead I put it into critiquing words for a proper comment.
    • Yeah, I can totally understand doing it in private. I have my own system I use. It's just I've been entering contests for maybe 9 months now and other than one time a few months ago I hadn't seen it at all, now there's three or four contests running with them.

      I just thought it kind of strange they come up all at once. I guess stuff can be pretty cyclical like that.
  • Really? I haven't come across that yet, but then I don't enter many contests.

    That sounds odd that they would do that in contest comments.
    Personally, I never critique in a comment on an entry in my contests. I just make a brief comment on something I liked about it and thank them for their entry.
    In my opinion, anything else is showing favoritism in judging before its over.

    I don't even give personal IM comments until after the contest is done. To me the story should stand as entered without re-editing before it is judged.

    That's what a contest is about, right? Entering the best you have to offer, ..with no outside help.

    That's how I look at it, anyway. Take as you will.
    • maybe you mistook what I meant as private. I didn't mean private as in IM or talking with the other person off line about it. I meant as in inside my own head for no one else to see.

      You're right that a story shouldn't be discussed privately. I do critique every story but I do it the same with every story I read whether it's in a contest or not. Though grammar hardly ever has anything to do with their final placement. Generally it's dependent upon how well they stuck to the theme of the contest and my enjoyment of the piece.
  • Yeah, I get the private thoughts in your head. By IM'ing, i meant that after the contest I send them to the winners giving them more of my thoughts on their stories because I don't do so during the contest.

    Perhaps I mistook the Rubric thing. Though it hasn't happened to me, I've seen judges give a full all-out critique of a story in their contest comment. I think that is wrong. It should be left for after the contest, unless the writer is told right there that they are out of the competition.
    I've seen judges give those kind of comments, and then that writer win the contest because they edited it and the judge gave it to them after the edit. That is commonly known as cheating.
    Unfortunately, there is a lot of friend-help-friend stuff here. For some of these people it is no more than a social site. *shrugs*

    That is why I only enter contests posted by people I know. I know they are good people and fair judges.
    Like I said, these are just my opinions, but I have reasons for them.

    • yeah I can understand. I personally do give the critique but I don't go back and read their story again. I read too slow to read anything twice.
      • I don't actually go back and reread the stories. I don't read that fast either. *laughs*
        I do remember the stories I've given trophies to though. I just give them more of my thoughts on the story when I send the congrats note after its over.

      • Barbara
        July 4

        Reply
        I always go back and reread.... more to refamiliarize myself with the story than anything else. If the person had a lot of errors, and has been online since I mentioned them, and did not correct, then... to me that means they're not overly interested in the craft of writing.
    • I never considered the fact that some contest-holders were favoring their friends, but now it seems to make sense. I'm quite it's happened to me before, because I've had some stories I worked quite hard on basically ignored. Not very fair, but what are you gonna do?

      I'll enter any contest I see fit, though, because I don't see anything wrong with trying.
      • Oh, heck ya. The more you enter the better chance you have of winning some.

        Truth is, I don't enter many anyway unless it's something that really interests me. I'd rather post them and read other peoples stories. *nods*

        • Barbara
          July 4

          Reply
          That can also have the reverse effect with some hosts. If you enter one story in 20 contests, then... it sort of looks like you don't really have anything else to offer. That's why I don't allow prewrites in my contest... I want people to earn those points I'm putting up! (I know I rarely host contests... but I'm using an AP reference there )
          • I don't allow prewrites in my contests either, for the same reason. I usually set them up so there's no way a prewrite would fit the criteria. There have been a couple of times I've allowed them to be entered, but I've never given a trophy to one, and never will.
            Like you said, they have to earn those points when they're coming put of my pocket.

            And don't worry. I keep it legit. When I do allow prewrites I state flat out in the summary that new stories will be considered first in the final ratings.
            That usually keeps them away.
            • I admit that I've gotten bad at entering mainly only prewrites lately. It's mostly because I'm working on other things that don't fit said contests. If I'm going to write something new the contest has to, as you said, be something that really interests me and hopefully challenge me.

              Which there has been a couple of those lately so I'm happy.

              I try to run contests that have different themes from the norm so it not only promotes new writes but hopefully also challenges people too stretch themselves.

              I allow prewrites as long as I haven't read it before. That's simply because I never know if I might be missing out on a really great read. Granted, I have gotten some sloppy stuff too. Also like you I try to make it clear that new writes will get preference, just to give a little incentive.

    • Barbara
      July 4

      Reply
      A contest is the perfect place for a full out critique... after all, you're trying to win someone's points and a nice shiny cyber trophy. If someone edits, and the host rereads and likes, then it's not cheating. People seem to think that they can enter any piece of fwork in a contest, errors and all, and not change a thing, and still expect to win. The best piece (in the eyes of the host) is what wins, and if someone is willing to take advice and change errors, then it shows they are actually interested in the contest, and not just entering anything they have just for a chance to win.

  • Lawrie
    July 4

    Reply
    I don't organise contests because I don't like telling people they haven't won. Besides that, I would feel even more lousy having to tell someone who is a far better writer than I, that I deemed their story not good enough.

    The point about some contest holders favouring their friends is something I've touched on before in another discussion. Therefore I only enter contests of people I know will give judgement on the story, irrespective of the author.

    A point of view expressed to me was that an anonymous contest would ensure "friends" did not come into the equation and my reply was there was nothing stopping friends from IMing each other to say they'd entered.

    Label me a cynic if you must, but I have been studying in the School of Life for far too long, almost seven decades.

    Anyway, back to the topic, I don't really understand what is meant by "Rubric systems" I would be grateful if someone could explain.
    • That's the thing about holding the contest. At the end, you just post the winners and send them congrats. The people who didn't win knew they were just taking a chance when they entered.

      As for the Rubric System, it is basically a grading system for essays. You're told what is expected beforehand. Then your told what you did wrong, and sometimes why, when you get it back. Kind of like the red marks on your paper when they gave it back to you in school.

      There are variations on it, but I think that is what tonialoise is talking about. Basically the judge gives you a critique pointing out all your mistakes without telling you what they liked about it. Not a very good way to review stories, if you ask me.

      Like I said, I'm not sure that's what tonia was talking about. I'm sure she'll be by to correct me if I'm wrong. *laughs*

      *looks over shoulder*

      • Lawrie
        July 4

        Reply
        Hi Greg,

        Many thanks for the information. Once again I have learned something on Storywrite
      • Yep, that's basically it. The one time I did enter a contest using Ribrics they just posted the "grades" and no other comments. At least when people grade essays you do get the red marks to see what could be fixed.

        I've entered another recently and am hoping for more comments as the contest runner does give decent comments.

        do I have a reputation of correcting people? Gosh, I hope not. Usually I just try to make what I say more understandable, but I know I can be a bit too talkative at times too... like now
        • Too talkative? If you are, then I am way more guilty of it. *laughs*

          That's why we write, right? *pun intended, ..I think*
          We're all here to express our thoughts and hope they come across the way we intend them. If we have to expand on them from there, all the better. We all learn something in the end.

          That's what we're all here for. To communicate thoughts, whether through the stories, talking about them, or exchanging ideas.

          That's why I'm here anyway. I learn something new everyday from one person or another.

          Ooops! See there? Now I'm the one being too talkative.
          *ducks out back door*
          • yep, that's why I enter contests and give critiques. I want to learn and help others learn.

            I think the communicating thoughts just comes kind of naturally to all of us here since we're writers.

        • Barbara
          July 4

          Reply
          No other comments? that's not a critique The way to do it is to explain the reason behind giving the grammar a 6/10.. or the plot development a 4/10 ... that way it doesn't look like the host pulled the numbers out of their... hat.
          • yeah, that's kind of what I thought, and seeing the new contests with them I was hoping this wasn't going to happen in those too.
  • I've seen the current rubric system contests. Is that being used as a substitute for a useful comment? Lame. I think I have entered one rubric contest in the past, and all I got was a score out of 100 and a couple "yay" sentences.

    I've taken to looking up the profile page of the contest holder, rubric or no, to gauge what sort of judging I might expect, if I don't already know them.

    I agree with tonialoise above, that I'm often too busy with other projects to do "new-writes-only" contests, alas. I used to have more time, and many of my best stories came from contest prompts. Now, not so much at all.

  • Asfand
    July 7

    Reply
    I like Rubrics. I think they help me in judging the contest fairly, especially when the contest is about a 'story as a whole piece' and not a specific pin-point area. Although, I don't post Rubrics on people's stories. I think that if I give someone a very bad score, it would seem discouraging so I keep the scores to myself.

    I started telling people not to rate or comment to my comments on their stories to keep it anonymous, but to no certain effect. People still rate my comments. Not that I don't trust my own judgment - i just like to not know who I'm judging. Especially since many 'great' writers jump in. I don't like to discredit thier works either.

    • Those don't show up as Anonymized, when they rate your comment?
      • it depends on if you're on the contest page or not. I've gotten those kind of messages when I'm reading another story or something and it shows their name. I think it's just the fact that if they're completely anonymized you wouldn't be able to even see your friend's name if they entered. If you're on your contest page it will be anonymized.

        I would think though that the programming shouldn't be to hard just for the notes. If the note was in relation to a certain story in your contest the name on that note could be anonymized. Maybe that's something to bring up to Kevin.

      • Asfand
        July 8

        Reply
        Nope. If they comment or rate, and I get a NOTE then there's no anonymized name thingy! Weird, nah?
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