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Do you think that the drinking age should be lowered to 18? I was just watching the news and i forgot which, but one of the states was debating over the idea of lowering the drinking age to 18. Teens like beer and no law is going to stop that. I think it should becausse under age drinking is pretty much normal, everyday life for many kids under 21, with the law in place. What do you guys think?
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I have mixed feelings. The places around the world that aren't as anal about the drinking age don't seem to have as many problems with underage drinking as the US (seem, as in I'm not 100% so don't kill me if I'm wrong). I think if someone can go to war and die for their country at 18, I think they deserve a drink.
This is definitely a tough one. -
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i think that maybe part of it is that alot of teens do it cuz the illeagality of it makes them "cool"
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Exactly. It's cool to break the law and lose your appetite, self control, and sense of decency
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speaking from experience?
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From an observational perspective, yes
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In Australia, the legal drinking age is 18 but yeah minors still do it illegally. Drugs and smoking too.
For those who are stupid enough to get into all that (drinking excessively but drugs and smoking at any age), I don't think the legal age would make any difference.
It's hard to say though because different people mature differently - some people might be responsible enough at 18 but others might not be until well after 21. I guess in that case, it's better to be oversafe and accommodate for everyone than give more freedoms to the responsible people and have the irresponsible get out of control.
But of course that wouldn't really make any difference anyway because, as we've said, people do all that stuff underage anyway.
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(This comment isn't fully in reply to you, it's half in reply to the thread.)
How about looking at it this way, kids who are going to drink, and get drunk, are going to do it over or under the legal age (more likely under, 'cause illegal makes things cool), so having really anal laws makes it hard for the responsible, it doesn't really effect the irresponsible that much. If you gonna drink drive, you're gonna drink drive, 'cause the law (where I am) says 0.05 is the limit ain't gonna stop them. Once again, it just makes it harder for the responsible ones.
I think it's the same for everything, if someone is gonna be stupid, laws aren't going to be an issue, until you get caught. Of course, I'm saying there should be no laws, and anarchy reign, I just think governments should be mindful of what people are really like before the make laws, which only really make life bloody hard for the ones who wish to abide by the law of the land.
France is a good example for what no drinking age can do. They don't really have an issue with drinking like some countries. With the kids being brought up having a glass of wine with a meal, it doesn't make it a thing to want to have just 'cause you can't.
I'll stop now, this is kinda a pet peeve for me, and I could rant for hours on the subject, but I'll leave it with what I have.
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I absolutely agree, Dan.
You sound like a libertarian, and that is a very good thing. Laws are for law abiding people and never did anything to stop an outlaw. There's good reason for that name; because they don't care about the law.
Here's my thought: we in general are less idiot-prone by the age of twenty one. We've had three more years to get all the idiocy out of our systems. Being as how alcohol diminishes the good sense a person has by about, oh, ninety percent, I don't think it's a bad thing to let that cerebral bank account grow for another three years before giving the go ahead to run an overdraft on already meager funds.
That's my two cents, and you can take that to the bank. -
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less idiotic prone maybe, but part of the idiocy is in part that just about every freekin teen drinks no matter what law you have in place
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Good to know I'm not alone.
A libertarian... hmm, I have no idea, I have my views, and until proven wrong, I stick to them. I guess a few aren't exactly what you'd call mainstream.
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O.O
Ohmygoodnessgracious, I agree with you completely.
And *gasp* there's a new glomp emote!
I just kinda glomped you. My apologies.
-jj -
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Hehehe.
Yay for likeminded people!
Hey, I has the glomp emote on MSN.
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D: I don't gots MSN. *is sad*
But I can still glomp!
-jj -
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You should get MSN then!
You know you want to, join the dark side, we have cookies!
*Dies under a mass overload of glomps* -
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*wants cookies very muchly*
But computers and I just don't get along, and I have absolutely no idea how to get MSN. Plus, my internet hates me. Like, it's out to get me.
*revives you* *glomps you*
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Awww, *give you cookie* You can still have cookies.
Computers really have it in for some people...
*Dies from over glompage again* -
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*munches on cookies* :] If you made these, you're quite the cook.
Seriously. I have this desire to just take a sledgehammer to my computer one day. I'm not a violent person, though. I promise. =D
I see this turning into a vicious cycle. *revives you* *s you*
O.O I'm sorry. That emote is rather addicting. -
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Hehe, alas, no, I didn't make them, I pinched them from my sister, she makes yummy cookies.
Hehe, it's a Windows, of course you want to kill it, I would to. Which is why I switched to Apple.
*Once again dies from over-glompage* Seriously, do you know how much I've been glomped/hugged/squeezed by girls today? I don't know how much more I can take! -
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*sigh* The last cookies I made came out of the oven burnt. D: I fail.
=] I gots a plan now. Kill my computer and then get an Apple!
Pffft. The day that you stop getting glomped/hugged/squeezed by girls is when you need to worry, mon ami. =] Until then, I shall continue to glomp you and you better love it.
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Burnt cookies... you should just stick to cookie batter then, it's da shiz.
Yeah, that's a plan. Good things with Apples, they start to die, and you just threaten to eat them, works every time.
Good point that. I wish they were more then just virtual glomps/hugs/squeezes.
*Braces himself for further glompage*
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*gasp* I know! 'Tis ah-maz-ingggg.
Teehee. I broke my iPod, though. D: I dropped it in water and it sizzled. O.O I was all, "Whoa...back away from the frying technology..."
I'm not sure how someone could glomp someone else in person. Like, it's kinda a pounce/backwards hug/tackle/affectionate surprise attack. I'd probably try it and get arrested. But ah well. =] You'll learn to love my virtual glomps.
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lol what the hell is glomp... ...
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in uk, drinking age is 18, but there was actually some discussion about raising it to 21.
of course, at 18 you could join teh army, fly to another coutry, kill a load of people you only just met, but not drink. does seem a bit odd its ok to kill other people but not yourself. -
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i completely agree... except for the kill urself part lol
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Living in a college town, I see a lot of kids killed by their own excess, and legally so, at the age of 21. With no limits to being able to purchase alcohol at their age, they binge drink, and die later in their sleep, or perish in automotive accidents, often taking innocent people with them.
Now, we want to lower that limit to 18, adding a score more kids to the death rolls.
Say all you want about how kids will drink anyway - and you're right, they will - but the controlling factor is they must sneak to do it, which means they don't have the freedom to do it every second of the day.
Also, many kids in America now graduate at the age of 19. Should they be able to finish high school drinking beer?
The age is 21, as we already know the 21 year olds will sneak beer to their 18 and 19 year old friends. If we lower it to 18, then we invite alcoholism among 15 and 16 year olds. Some of them already drink, but the situation would grow much worse.
Consider this. My sons started smoking at 14. Now, we don't buy their cigarettes and they have no job. Those cigarettes come from kids they know that are 18 and can buy them legally. If the legal age were 21 to smoke, they wouldn't have started so early, as 14 year olds don't typically hang out with 21 year olds. As such - limited access.
The same goes with alcohol. The lower the limit, the lower the age of underage drinkers. Do I beleive a man that serves his country in war has the right to drink? Absolutely! Let him do it on a military base, among the many other soldiers who have risked their lives, and at the age he joins ... be it 17, 18, 19, or 20. However, for us average Joes, 21 is just fine.
If you want the drinking age lowered to 18, then allow alcohol to be served only in bars and do not allow it to be purchased for home use. Why? This would lead people to only drink in bars, where a bartender could shut them down - and would do so, if they were legally held responsible for the actions of any they overserved. If this were done, I would see everyone's right to drink at the age of 18.
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are you kidding, just about every 15 or 16 yr old i know drinks. Teenage drinking is rampant and no law will stop it... but i guess it does limit the alcoholism to a degree, but not much
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Let me ask you this: do you drink?
If you do (or if you don't and someone else wants to answer this) then why do you drink?
Here's my problem. I've never understood the mindset behind drinking. Most beers are piss-poor mop bucket water-tasting shitty brews that are made for quantity (and drunkenness) rather than for quality.
And then what a lot end up doing, especially those who aren't legally allowed to have it, is drinking until they can't walk downstairs without a death grip on the railing. And then they just make themselves look like a total ass and can't even remember the "great time" they had the night before - in a worst case scenario.
People tend to follow what their friends do. Things that are taboo become cool and the more you do them the cooler you are. That's just the way I see it. -
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i cant legally say that i do drink, but if i did it would be because i like the taste of beer. Good enough reason?
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I drink. I drink wine with meals most of the times. Or a liqueur while watching a movie. I can't stand beer, so I don't drink it (I like your description of it).
I've never had enough that I can't stand up, only enough that things are not quite as solid as they were before, and I'm quite happy, it's great, I love the feeling of slightly intoxicated.
I can't say I've ever followed my friends if they're doing something I don't think it right, I tend to be one of the 'voice of reason' people. -
I prefer beer. Then again, it's beer from Canada, so it's good stuff. And a little stronger than the brew south of the border from me. I never drank as a teenager... never really saw the need to act like an ass while loaded.
The legal drinking age in my province is 19. And on any night in the bars, you can tell the underage people.... they're the girls wearing the tanktop (even in the middle of winter), and the guys who try to look too much like they belong there. And, the underagers are also the ones on the dance floor thinking that swinging their arms above their heads while screaming 'whooooo!' to the music qualifies as dancing.
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Hmm
I completely agree. I didn't have a drop until I was 23. I feel the same way about the beer mindset, but I usually replace it with cigarettes (as in the same 'need to fit in and look cool' reason). Some friends got pissed at me because I said the only reason someone smokes is because they're either stupid or weak. A bit harsh I know but really either you don't care about your body/don't know what cigarettes can do (stupid) or you do know but risk the long term effects to look cool and fit in with people you probably won't know/care about in two years (stupid). I do feel bad for the older generation who had doctors on tv telling them to puff away. Sorry I switched the topic a bit. At least I didn't glomp you
I see things working in other countries and just wonder why it doesn't work here (US). Are we really determined to be #1 in everything good and bad? It seems like any idea from outside the US is considered un-american and therefore wrong.
How about we force you to take an IQ test the first time you try to buy alcohol? That way we can determine if you're smart enough to drink and not share it with 9 yr olds or if you're an idiot 21 yr old and should never be allowed anything more than zima!
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I've been told that the drinking age in the US has only been 21 for 20-ish years. They said "I don't know why it was raised in the first place."
While it may be true that the problem wouldn't be as bad if it had stayed the same (as it works in other countries) my argument is that, you can't put responsibility in irresponsible hands.
The college students around here (and the high schoolers I went to school with) have already proven their desire to drink until drunk either for the hell of it, to fit in, or to get laid. So the only thing that will change by lowering it is the increase of people who can't be prosecuted for being irresponsible. -
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Change the age you can prosecute!
Brilliant!
Wait, alcohol gets you laid?
'Barkeep! a glass of water and three shots of wild turkey for the lovely lady.'
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And a bucket for when she vomits....
'cause there ain't nothing more romantic than alcohol/vomit breath.
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Threads like these bring out anarchist in me,
make me wanna say things like, 'screw the law'. I'm a firm believer in taking responsibility for ones own actions. It seems that our societies are continually trying to shield us from ourselves and errant freak anomalies. No drugs, no booz, no sex, no jumping off buildings, no climbing on trains, having to wear a helmet while ridding a bike, etc, etc no risky behavior at all! Of course laws that aim to protect us from ourselves go beyond substances and stupid behavior, also limiting us in many other ways.
My point is that over regulation is leading to a society without responsibility. No one is responsible for their own actions. If people can't regulate their own behavior they should have to wear the consequences themselves, not pass all the blame on to the state or business or others. I started drinking when I was only fifteen and of course I made mistakes while drinking, some very embracing but I always took responsibility for my own actions. I would go as far as to say, that if you can't be responsible for your own actions, then you don't deserve the right to live. -
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*looks alarmed* can i quote you when you say that if you cant be responsible for your own actions, then you dont deserve the right to live? lol.
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Being responsible for my own actions makes me responsible for my own words. You want to quote me, you are welcome to it.
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Many people in this county (Britain) dont actually know the law to its full extent. The legal age to buy alcohol and to drink in pubs and clubs here is eighteen. However, with parental concent within the confines of your own home it is legal to allow your children to drink regardless of age, although obviously not to excess and this is where the various child protection laws come into play.
I was always taught by my parents that there is nothing 'evil' or 'imoral' about drinking as long as it is done responsibly. My parents would often let me have a small glass of wine with our Sunday roast and on the rare occasions when they would have a drink in the evenings they would let me try it. This has lead me to understand alcohol and has removed the 'novelty factor' that I know has been key for a lot of my friends getting into drinking. Its not always that its 'cool' that leads underage people to try alcoholic drinks but often the whole 'I wonder what its like'. It is also a trust thing. My parents would let me try their drinks when they had them and they trusted me not to dip into it when they werent around. Of corse its a different matter entirely now when at the age of twenty I can buy my own alcohol and its my mum that will skank it off me, lol.
I wouldnt say that I 'drink' in the steriotypical sense. I have never gotten so drunk Ive thrown up or not remembered everything the night before. I drink because I enjoy the taste. Amarreto is my tipple of choice and its fairly strong (by you beer drinking pansys standards) but I know my limits (which is at absolute max about a third of a bottle, after that I wont let anyone bug me into drinking more since Im not an idiot). However, if the legal age to drink was twenty one it still wouldnt stop me and I dont mean that in the rebelious sense but more in the sense that I enjoy the occasional liquer of an evening, or the odd glass of cider whilst watching an Agathar Christy snuggled up with my daddy and Im not going to let the law (that after all is there for peoples protection) stop me from enjoying those little luxuries when I am being sensible. -
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beer drinking pansy standards? why i oughta...
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*Points and laughs* shot down!
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*snifs indignantly* people who drink beer arent pansies
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I always buy a bottle of Amarreto for after Christmas dinner, and to finish off on New Year's Eve. Great stuff.
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Hey, I'm new, but I thought I'd throw in my two cents' worth anyway. Hope that's okay.
I've heard that the drinking age is 21 in the U.S. because that's (scientifically) when the brain has stopped major growth and development. I'll take their word for it.
I live in Canada, and the drinking age is 19 here, which seems arbitrary. As CactusJack and several others mentioned, at 18, we can go to war and vote - but we can't drink.
What I get from this is that an 18-year-old can be held responsible for the lives of others - in the sense that they can put a gun in your hand and send you to kill people, but also in the sense that you are expected to help choose your government - but this same 18-year-old can't be held responsible for his or her personal life.
I guess I'm sort of Mills-ian in this way; I think that if people want to do something that could potentially cause themselves harm (emphasis on 'themselves'; obviously, behaviour that can hurt others is a different matter entirely), then by all means, go for it. Like ZombieJim said, the more you regulate people, the more you prevent them from taking responsibility for their own actions.
We expect kids to be adults by 18 - as previously mentioned, they can go to war and vote, and by then many have graduated from high school, are able to drive, and hold down a job - but still we say, "You're not mature enough to decide what to do with your own body."
If you expect kids to act like adults, then treat them like adults. -
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In Quebec, Manitoba and Alberta, the legal drinking age is 18.
Oddly enough, the age when one is legally considered an adult ranges between provinces/territories... 18 and 19. So, in some, you're considered an adult, but you can't legally drink.
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Just out of curiosity, what is the legal age of concent where ever you guys are from? Here in the UK its 16 and I think its kinda funny that the government is saying that at that age you are old enough to sleep with someone and therefore potentially have a baby but you are not mature enough to drink in a public place. Im not saying that the age of concent should be put up cos its up to the individual to do what they feel is right with their own body but I think that the idea that you are legally able to creat a new little person and look after them but ya cant enjoy a nice drink down ya local. It is also illegal here to buy erm... 'adult movies' shall we say under the age of 18 which seems even sillier that the drinking rule. So you can physically have sex at 16 but cant watch it for two more years, lol.
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in U.S. its 21, which sucks!!!!!!! lol that is funny about being allowed to have sex but not watch adult movies
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I drink. But only wine and other random drinks my friends give me, beer is sick...it makes me want to puke. I mean I tasted beer when I was 11, I puked after. I'm 15 now, I dont drink to raise my status, its yummy! lol I'm not addicted so I can last without it but I choose not to!
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beer is more of an aquired taste. Most people who premote the fact that they drink, are normaly the people who dont really drink unless its to make themselves look 'cool'
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Well Italy also doesn't really have enforced drinking laws- you just got to be older than 14 to drink alcohol and drinking it they really don't care. They offer teens or kids wine at the table. I lived there for a year and it was the american or people from countries with strict drinking laws that got into problems. The italian kids were careful and knew their limits and also it was a part of t heir culture. I think that if it could be made a part of the culture to respect alcohol and make it less of a big deal that would be better. I personally don't want to not have control of my body so i avoid doing stuff like that. I hate that feeling. I drink wine at the table with my family though- sometimes. I like certain kinds better and I really only have a couple sips not a full glass. Beer is gross, as is the other hard alcohols- I've tasted a few out of curiousity with parents permission and was very put off at the taste. Its possible to be safe about it- I don't drink at parties though because its not safe and not worth the consequences. Drinking to be cool is stupid and doesn't work because if thats all you do it for when you start throwing up or acting weird people can tell and the people that drink seriously than it is just really sad.
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I always wonder about this. Here, in England, it is 18 anyway, but i've been drinking since I was 16. Actually, since that was only in homes and i never bought it, that is technically not illegal, or it wasn't here at some point. Loopholes.
Before we were 18 everyone I knew drank a hell of a lot more, they just did it secretly. They were old enough to in their minds, and so why not, but that meant that since they could only drink for one night a week, at a party, they drank excessively and without thought.
Now we're 18, we drink less when we go out then we did when we stayed in, we drink less when we stay in, but do we do it more often? I don't know.
I personally think that the drinking laws should be completely relaxed. Places like France make you respect drink. It isn't something you have to get as much as you can of on that one night a week. You have it every day, anyway, so its not a big thing, its just another thing. I think we should be like that. taught to respect and understand it, so that we don't over do it.
I have to say, the brain isn't fully developed until 21, and so drinking before then is probably not the best thing for your developing mind. However, when I stayed in the States, it killed me that I am only 20. I've been partying, drinking, going out, since i was 16, Legally since 18. All of a sudden I was stuck. I couldn't go out with my friends I was with, couldn't sit down with them. I was desperate to get home and just go to the pub.
The day after I got back i went for lunch in the pub with my best friend. He asked what I was drinking and I said 'lemonade'. He said 'i thought you were desperate for a real drink' and i smiled and said 'no, I wanted it because i couldn't. Now i know i can, i want lemonade.'
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scriptor
Aug 19 6:41 PM
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